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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Gutter cleaner   Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:42 pm

Butyl is the magic ingredient for cleaning gutters.

I just tested out adding some to pressuretek's F-13 gutter grenade and it works just as good as Mighty Max plus from Soap Warehouse which is very similar to Gutter Zap.

50 gallon drum of Butyl enhanced F-13

Fill drum with 40 gallons of water
Add 5 gallons pressure-tek's F-13 (5% potassium hydroxide)
Add 5 gallons 100% pure Butyl Cellosolve (2-butoxy ethanol)
from http://www.chemistrystore.com/cart.cgi?group=49899&child=49905
Add 1-2 bottles of your favorite dish soap

53.75 + 87.10 = $140.85 + shipping

$200 cheaper than Soap warehouse's Mighty Max plus and much much cheaper than Gutter Zap

5 gallons of Gutter Zap contains <5% sodium hydroxide and 9% butyl.
50 gallons of Butyl F-13 contains <1% potassium hydroxide and 10% butyl.


Last edited by Mike Sullivan on Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:03 am; edited 15 times in total
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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:12 am

Mike Sullivan wrote:
Butyl is the magic ingredient for cleaning gutters.

I just tested out adding some to pressuretek's F-13 gutter grenade and it works just as good as Mighty Max plus from soapwarehouse which is very similar to Gutter-zap.

50 gallon drum of Butyl enhanced F-13

Fill drum with 40 gallons of water
Add 5 gallons pressure-tek's F-13
Add 5 gallons pure Butyl Cellosolve (2-butoxy ethanol)
from http://www.chemistrystore.com/cart.cgi?group=49899&child=49905

That is some good info Mike. Thanks for sharing it. What a price difference for me. I usually use gutter zap. Huge savings!!! Laughing My only question is how fast do you have to be with it? In other words, does it start removing the paint fast? Thanks again for the info.

53.75 + 87.10 = $140.85 + shipping

Half the price of Soap warehouse's Mighty Max plus and much much cheaper than Gutter-zap
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:11 am

Pressuretek's F-13 says it is safe to work with dilutions of 5-1.

This mixture cuts it down to 9-1. It will mostly remove just the oxidized layer of paint. Depending on the age of the gutters, I have taken the paint off before. You will have to experiment with it. Every gutter is different.

For the most part after you mix it you won't have to cut it down with water, some older gutters you might, or if the gutters are not that streaky cut it down to save chemical.


Last edited by Mike Sullivan on Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:23 am; edited 3 times in total
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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:11 am

Thanks Mike!!!
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:34 pm

No problem dude! Let me know how you like it. Mine works great.

There's no color to it, so if you wanted to, you could add your favorite dish soap to give it color and make it stick better too.
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:10 am

Or instead of mixing 50 gallons.

You could test it out by mixing 10 gallons.

Fill 8 gallons of water
Add 1 gallon of F-13
Add 1 gallon of Butyl
add dish soap.

Colder weather add 6-8oz/ Sodium Hydroxide to your 10 gallon mix.

14.00 + 19.42 = $33.42 + shipping


Last edited by Mike Sullivan on Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:02 am

http://hcpc.uth.tmc.edu/pihome/edu/msds/images/Original%20Krud%20Kutter.pdf

Check this out.

Krud Kutter is basically the same thing as Butyl enhanced F-13.

Krud Kutter - $18/gallon.

Gutter Zap - $15/gallon.


Butyl F-13 costs $3/gallon.

SAVE YOURSELF 5-6 TIMES YOUR MONEY!!!


Last edited by Mike Sullivan on Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Larry Millette

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:22 pm

Good info Mike. I sometimes use a butyl based degreaser with sodeum hydroxide in it called (Purple stuff) I usually add a bit of Dawn for more sticking power. LT. spray on, dwell 3-5 min and rinse off. Works pretty well. It's a bit tougher on painted gutters and or facia.
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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:13 pm

Larry, That dwell time is not pulling the paint off? I carry cans of white spray paint on my rig. Sometimes on old gutters and facia you just have to do a little touch up if you know what I mean!!!
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Larry Millette

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:03 pm

I normally mix it pretty weak Spencer and add a bit more if I need to. Average, 3-4 parts water to 1 part degreaser and a squirt or 2 of Dawn. Good Idea about carrying some paint on board. I'll grab a can next HD run. Ya never know when an OOOPS may happen!
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:55 pm

Here's the MSDS of Gutter Zap.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/sunbrite/GutterZap.pdf

5 gallons of Gutter Zap contains <5% sodium hydroxide and 9% butyl.
50 gallons of Butyl F-13 contains <1% potassium hydroxide and 10% butyl

Add 20 lbs of sodium hydroxide to 50 gallons of Butyl F-13 to make it similar strength as concentrated Gutter Zap.

I have not tried this mixture, probably would strip the paint off. I don't feel the need to make it this strong though, my orginal mixture works fine.

Or maybe perhaps we don't need F-13 after all. Maybe just 2-4 pounds of sodium hydroxide and 5 gallons of Butyl with 45 gallons of water with dish soap to make 50 gallons would work.


Last edited by Mike Sullivan on Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:04 am; edited 4 times in total
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:38 am

Correction.. in Florida this problem happens less than in NC, but I wanted to post an update on my new gutter cleaner.

You will need to strengthen Butyl F-13 in colder weather. Yesterday I was working in about 50 degree weather and was having some trouble removing the black streaks from the gutters.

All I had to do was add a little sodium hydroxide and it came out like BUTTER!

I will add 2 pounds of sodium hydroxide to my 50 gallon Butyl F-13 mix today to get the hydroxide level up to 1%.

New Butyl F-13 for cold weather gutters
50 gallons TOTAL

40 gallons water
5 gallons F-13 (5% potassium hydroxide)
5 gallons Butyl (100% Butyl Cellosolve)
2 pounds Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic soda beads)

MSDS = .5% Potassium Hydroxide, .5% Sodium Hydroxide, 10% Butyl

If 1% potassium/sodium hydroxide is not enough, keep adding SH until you achieve the desired result.

Lye (sodium hydroxide) only costs $.70/lb. here in Greensboro so you are still saving a ton of money compared to Gutter ZAP


Last edited by Mike Sullivan on Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:12 am; edited 6 times in total
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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:38 am

It was 33 degrees here last Tuesday Morning!!
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:22 am

Jeez! I didn't think it gets that cold in Tampa!
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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:05 am

Not too often. I can say I don't really like cleaning pool cages in that weather!!! pale
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Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa
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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:34 pm

Then spray THIS stuff on, LOL
Chreck THIS out ?

Hello,

I have watched your roof and exterior cleaning videos and am interested to discuss a business opportunity that may expand your current business model. Also I am interested in learning your product line as well and possibly bring it to US to market. Do you currently have a cleaning distributor in the Unites States?

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And TPXsol self cleaning glass coating demostration
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1964652621271212159&q=photocatalsyt&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

The causes of exterior wall soiling can be divided into two categories: adhesion of dust and grit caused by static electricity, and adhesion of atmospheric pollutants (exhaust gasses, factory smoke, etc.) due to their oil content. Photocatalyst TiO2 coating’s hydrophilicity creates a layer of water on the exterior wall surface to prevent static electricity and attraction of dust, grit, dirt or soot to settle on the surface. In addition, the decomposition strength of the exterior surface weakens the adhesiveness of organic oily content. Any residual dust particles are then washed away by natural rainfall and therefore completing the building’s self-cleaning cycle.

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Again, this technology offers only with one time application necessary in 6-10 years for the benefit of self-cleaning effect on building façade,. The coating is very durable and will continuous degrade the foreign (micro-sizes) contaminant such as mold, mildew, soot, NOx, formaldehyde, VOC odors, etc. Therefore, it is considered the most green innovation product with longevity benefit impact to clean our environment. We have project references, ASTM Test report, product spec, Technical data sheet, credential project references history that can be provided to you once upon your request.

Please find the above information useful. If you are interested in learning more or would like to obtain further information, please feel free to contact or email me. I will be very glad to walk you through and answer any question you may have. Also, I would like to explore the possibility of your company product to market in the United States. Either way, I am interested to discuss it with you with opportunities.

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Best Regard,

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Green Millennium Inc.
425 W. Allen Ave. #111
San Dimas, CA 91773
Tel: 909-305-8882
Fax: 626-737-6511
Cell: 909-919-3788
email: tyueh@greenmillennium.com
URL: www.greenmillennium.com

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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:37 pm

Looks good, sounds expensive.
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Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa
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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:41 pm

Mike Sullivan wrote:
Looks good, sounds expensive.
Concerned Mike, because this coating makes the surface retain water.
This dissapates the static electricity charge, eliminating the attraction of dirt and atmospheric pollutants.
BUT, wet surfaces are an invitation for a "mildew party" lol!

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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:51 pm

LOL! Ah... solved one problem, only to create another. That's funny!
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Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa
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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:21 pm

Unless they placed a long lasting mildew ihibitor in it ?
It is japanese, and they are clever.
A "self cleaning building", sound too good to be true ?

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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:39 am

Yeah, I've got some ocean front property in Kentucky for ya too!!! No matter what you spray on a building, house, pool cage, it is gonna get dirty. Let me spray my truck with it and let it sit in the drive way for a year. It will be filthy!!
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:54 pm

http://www.greased-lightning.com/i/1f9cfebdb5f1461e8981f005d5bbae2e.pdf

Here's another MSDS containing hydroxide and butyl.

10% Sodium Hydroxide
10% Butyl Cellosolve
10% Surfactant

50 gallons of Greased Lightning - High Performance

40 gallons of water
40 lbs. Sodium Hydroxide
5 gallons of 100% Butyl
1 gallon of Tergitol NP-9

This mix looks to be more like a monster concrete cleaner or perhaps kitchen exhaust.

WAY TOO STRONG FOR GUTTERS!!!



Last edited by Mike Sullivan on Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:39 pm

Mike sodium hydroxide and butyl will certainly clean up gutters. But I thought the whole rationale behind F-13 was that it only affected oxidation. Where as the buytil/sodium hydroxide cleaners actually take off paint! My experience is that if F-13 doesn't get the gutters clean. then a sodium hydroxide/butyl cleaner will just take the tiger stripes off down to bare metal. I've done this before. Taking paint off down to bare metal doesn't constitute a succesful gutter cleaning in my book. I'd rather just tell the customer - heck, it didn't come clean - oh, well.
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:14 am

F-13 has no butyl. The combination of butyl and hydroxide makes a big difference.

Too much hydroxide and it will strip the paint off. F-13 and Gutter Zap contain 5% hydroxide which is strong enough to strip the paint down to the bare metal unless you dilute it down.

Diluting it down also dilutes Gutter Zap's butyl down. It loses it's cleaning power when the butyl is cut down below 8%.

If your hydroxide and butyl concentration is just right:
.5-2% hydroxide and 8-10% butyl you will have better results.

I have had little success with just F-13 alone. Adding BUTYL to it makes it work 10 times better.


Last edited by Mike Sullivan on Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:23 am; edited 4 times in total
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Mike Sullivan

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PostSubject: Re: Gutter cleaner   Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:17 am

I think I read somewhere that using Butyl Cellosolve above 10% concentration is a health risk.

Keep it 10% or below.
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